How to Overcome our National Curiosity Deficit!

Clap your hands if you agree… We have a Curiosity Deficit and it is impacting how we connect and relate to each other! In this episode we speak with Chad Littlefield, co-author of Ask Powerful Questions: Create Conversations that Matter. Together we explore how to transform conversations from those that simply take up space to those that create meaning and build connection.

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Transcript

Chad Littlefield  
I find myself just sitting here smiling. And when anything you ask that question, what's the purpose of curiosity? And my whole being and my gut just went to create joy. But just the AHA here like I'm relearning. Like, I know this, I knew this. And the result of that, for me right now is joy.

Adina Tovell  
Hi, this is Adina here with today's episode of Courage to be Curious with Adina Tovell. If you're on video, you are already seeing that this has been done. Like you're on audio, you're gonna have to switch over to video. So you can already see that the party has begun here. This week's episode, and we are in the month of talking about the power of questions. And this theme selected not only because our big theme is curiosity, but also because two of our guests this month are author, the co authors of ask powerful questions, create conversations that matter. And a couple of weeks ago, you got to experience will wise who was one of the co authors, and I am sure had a fabulous experience. And and now we are so fortunate because both said yes. I mean, I don't know maybe I did something kooky to kind of get that outcome. I don't know there might have been a little manipulation in that. I don't know. But I'm so fortunate to get the two separate conversations. And so today's conversation is with Chad Littlefield and Amy Steindler is here again co hosting with me in order to have this conversation and Chad is as dynamic like he walked on to this podcast and in first three seconds you could already feel that the dynamic energy that he brings with him and he we're also going to talk about one of our my favorite topics, which is the neuroscience of curiosity and questions. So we are in for a total treat. So welcome, Amy. Welcome, Chad. So glad to have you both here today.

Chad Littlefield  
Thank you. Can you imagine if after that intro just started speaking in a really monotone tone for the rest of the time. It was really um, dynamic, the ironic. Hilarious. I mean, your cajoling to get me in we'll both on was helped by the fact that you have the word curious in the name your podcast, and I think both will and I stand place I imagine you both do to that we're like living in this place, this world where there is a national curiosity deficit. Right? We can just say, hey, Google, and they'll probably answer us and give us an answer and kill that question right away. So anyway, I'm super excited to share Thanks for the invite. Happy to be here.

Adina Tovell  
You're welcome. And just a little bit on Chad, for those of you who don't know who he is yet, but you will know him really well. And the end of an hour or so, in addition to being the co author with will have asked powerful questions, create conversations that matter. He is also the chief experience officer, which I love of we and me. And as you learned in organization with the mission to make connection easy. And he is also a global expert on asking questions. So you can see what we have we have a lot in common here are a lot of you know, synergy between us. But asking questions that Build Team trust and build connection. TEDx speaker, author, he's creative, we connect cards, and he has a fabulous presentation on his YouTube channel. So check out the YouTube channel because Chad brings just a lot of dynamic energy to the teachings that he does there. And it's really fun. So we are going to jump in. And I just want to start out by asking and Amy, you will find Amy is sort of the funny one here. You and we all kind of play off each other Amy and I play off of each other. She she's the funny one here. But in terms of asking powerful questions, creating conversations that matter? What does creating conversations that matter? What are conversations that matter?

Chad Littlefield  
Yeah, that's a really lovely question. And I used to work I used to do research on seasonal affective disorder and in college. And we were I was in the psychology, half of that research. But we worked with a meteorologist at Penn State. And so he's like, this is somebody whose job is talking about the weather, which is the characteristic small talk thing. And somewhere in interactions with him. His name was Eugene, Claudio. I realized that conversations that matter have nothing to do with the content of the conversation. conversations that matter have everything to do with the process of how the conversation happens, meaning I had some really wonderful conversations about the weather with Eugene, but I wouldn't categorize that a small talk right, I would have put those in the category of that was a conversation worth having that really mattered. And I think the reason was, I was really genuinely curious. He was excited to share some of his knowledge. We were all three, four of us when we ever we were meeting had an intention toward contribution. Right? So we wanted to add and generate something new. We weren't interested in just rehashing something old, there was a certain life to it. So I think the list could go on. And I don't think every single conversation that matters has to have, you know, a checklist of 1000 ingredients in order to qualify. But I do think that it's, it's it's much more to the process, and I and if there is a conversation happening, and there is no curiosity present, I would bet that it would start to lean quickly away from a conversation that actually matters. Because it curiosity is kind of like a symptom of caring. If you don't care about what's hot, what's being talked about the you're you have one foot out of the conversation. And so it's unlikely to want to really dive in and explore more.

Adina Tovell  
There's something about what you said that made me think and then Amy will pop over to you is, um, I very often hear from people. I hate the shallow conversations, I hate the you know, coffee table conversations that there is this sense out there that people can feel the difference qualitatively between a conversation that matters, and a conversation that just feels like it's filling space? And so this piece that you're talking about is what are the attributes of things that move a conversation from something that's just taking up space to something that is generative in some way? And Amy, I think probably from your perspective, you have something you want to add here?

Amy Steindler  
Well, I have something I want to ask because I love this, you know, this idea that a meaningful conversation, conversation that matters is one that generates connection. And I also love this whole idea of working with a meteorologist, because what comes up for me is, you know, our environment has an impact on how we show up. So Chad, in terms of, you know, creating the environment, creating the conditions for a meaningful conversation, what would you say were the components? You know, what, what's the weather need to be like for me to really show up?

Chad Littlefield  
Yeah, so I am not proud enough to think that I have the right answer to that question. But will and I have spent a lot of time thinking any answer will do. So well, and I have spent some time thinking about an answer. And it's a bit how the book is actually structured. So if you pick up and ask powerful questions, one of the first things you'll see is this three dimensional triangle, which I think we call a pyramid. And so you get this pyramid of both mindsets, tools and skills that I'm sure we'll talk about with you when you chatted with him. And so the the quick answer to that question, I would refer to that pyramid and going out that in 30 seconds is the very base you have intention. Priya Parker from the wrote the art of gathering likes to talk about meeting for purpose rather than for time. And I really, really love that I think if we were to converse, for purpose, rather than for filling space or filling time, the key ingredient to that would be getting clear about what your intention is, and then sharing it with the other person and maybe finding out there's so ingredient number one having an intention, because otherwise, even if that intention is open, right, your intention might be, I would love to be randomly curious for one hour. I'm tied to what the result of that random curiosity will be. Right? That's a great intention. That could be a lovely intention. And that's how maybe many conversations perhaps go if if there's curiosity present, but without that intention, stated, there isn't quite that like level of purpose established there. So that's number one. Number two is rapport, which will and I define as a relationship of trust, which doesn't, you know, require a decade to build. But the tool that we teach for that is following your natural genuine curiosity by asking someone, something that you are noticing in your environment and sharing, caring, presenting, etc, something that you see with your eyes, hear or feel, being with that person. So you all know all about that, that level, the next level that is openness, which has two frames of mind and the one that all the angle that I'll hit on. This is more more has to do with our brains in that part of our intention is to talk about the neuroscience of asking questions in conversations that matter. You know, ever, I should say everybody, many people are familiar with the idea of a fighter flight response or maybe even a fight flight or freeze response. And that's where our lizard brain our amygdala kind of flips its lid and takes over. And we're no longer thinking with our lovely giant prefrontal cortex in the top of our head. We are like back to running away from saber toothed tigers. However, there are no saber toothed tigers in my neighborhood. And so we're like, we're not very rear rarely running from a physical threat necessarily, particularly in conversation, right? And in the context of what we're talking about right now. And so I think what I've noticed in conversation is that it's more of a fight flight or need to be right response, where there is not an openness to what might happen. It's that like, I have this and it's not just like, I kind of want to be right, like, I have this need this biological drive to be right. And when we're in that place, we cannot be open to possibilities or outcome. And so that limits the scope of our questions that limits the answers we give to questions that limits the answers that we get from questions if we don't have an open mind there. So and the next to quickly listening, we talked about four different layers or levels of reflective listening, not just the like, Oh, so what I'm hearing you say is blank, but a little bit deeper and more nuanced than that. And then at the very tippy top is empathy, which will and I talked about as not stepping into people's shoes. We wouldn't say that Merriam Webster might disagree with us, but we would say that is sympathy where you're so wrapped up in somebody else's world, you've lost touch with your own reality. And so I think really good empathy is having one of your feet in their shoes just kind of imagining like okay, what would the world be like for them in this conversation right now? And also one of your feet rooted in your own reality and curiosity and understanding of the world, etc. So that was a long answer that was intended to be a short answer, but there you go.

Adina Tovell  
Well, but the essence and I think that pyramid that's in the book that's really the quarter at the core of your work is the answer to that and the journey is learning and developing those skills and those capacities over time. Because the more we do the deeper the connection

Chad Littlefield  
and if you're watching as well as listening to the pyramid looks like this. So everything I just told you the words that I just walked you through intention rapport, openness, listening and empathy on the flip side of that pyramid, if you do those really well, right, those are a little bit like what do I do with my hands, my brain, my mouth, my ears in conversation, but the flipside of the results if you can do those really well, is that what's communicated to a person is Hey, I'm willing to know you foundationally I see you I hear you I get you and ultimately I'm actually with you. Even if I've just met you I actually you feel that I want the best for you in the world. Like that's really cool to be in a conversation with somebody It doesn't matter if they're like cashing you out at the grocery store or one of your you know, most close friends or mentors like when someone really feels like they want the best for you and they're there to support you like that's cool feeling it's rare to

Adina Tovell  
so you know, it's interesting I want to start at intention except that now I'm so compelled and by my curiosity that I need to flip Go to the back end and then come back to the front but that question of being with you because in the work I do, a lot of times there's work with couples or there's work and we're just meeting somebody at a networking event like in some ways I find it's almost easier to get to through some of those steps because I don't have as much history and investment that I can open sometimes you know, I personally can open more easily to somebody but that the question of when to people who perhaps in perhaps in the closest of relationships, whether they're married or they work really closely together, that that empathy can be a really hard it's sometimes it can be become really hard to be with you because I'm so in my experience of being on the other side of you, that I have trouble having one foot in understanding you and one foot and my curiosity because as you said, I've got maybe one foot in trying to understand you but the other foot is definitely in some other place here of needing to be right needing to protect needing to do all those things. And so I'm curious about when we get to that empathy level. What have you learned over time is the difference of creating that kind of connection between people we don't know so well and people we have really intimate connection with. Um, I know it's a hard one.

Chad Littlefield  
No, it's uh, two things are coming to mind. One of them sticking with the the feet in people's shoes metaphor thinking about my Wife Kate, what happens when my fight flight or need to be right shows up is my foot slides out of her shoe and I'm actually not standing in her reality. All right, I'm staying on the other side, and so I'm not with. And then the other dynamic is that I live with Kate, I spend more time with Kate than anybody, any other human being on the planet. And so I sometimes make a false assumption that I could describe her world as she sees it, when in reality, I can't. Because it's her world. And, and even though we share lots of air and physical space together, and the kid and all this other context, right, I don't know what the world is like, through her eyes through her lens. But sometimes I make the mistake of thinking that I do. And then the last thing that's showing up for me right now is when I talk about the spectrum of knowing to learning, right, so I think as we get taller and older, we know more stuff, usually, right? We usually don't learn less stuff. As we go on, we usually like accumulate knowledge throughout our life. And when we accumulate more knowledge, it shifts us from a mindset perspective into a mindset of knowing I know a lot of stuff. And so I'm excited to offer this stuff to somebody else, as opposed to be on the other end of the spectrum, with this really deeply rooted in the mindset of learning, which like, yeah, okay, fine. I know stuff. I've been alive for 70 years. I haven't been alive for years, but some people have been alive for 70 years. And so they rack up a lot of knowledge. But to be able to make the choice to say just for a minute, I'm going to set aside that lifetime of unbelievable experience filled with knowledge. And just be curious about that person. And I don't know if we'll share this with you. But one of the things that he said about his relationship that's always really stuck with me is when he realizes he stops being curious about whether that is when his relationship is dead. It's over right then not permanently over. But there is no growth in the relationship there. It's stagnated.

Adina Tovell  
Yeah. I'm gonna pull back.

Chad Littlefield  
Right? I'm surprised you didn't show that didn't come up. Because I think that's a compelling realization that he's had that has allowed me that that quarter, that idea has allowed me to pull my amygdala out of the need to be right, multiple times, where I'm like, all I want to do is stand on my own reality and say, You're wrong. This doesn't make sense. Let's do it this way, whatever the common reaction is, and as right before, or maybe right after I say that and fumbled then screwed up in some way, which is where the more likely option actually, right after that happens. I get to pause and say, Okay, well, what am I curious to know about how Kate's experience is going right now and to be honest, if Kate was sitting here next to me listening to his podcast, you'd probably be like, yeah, you have some improvement you could work on it is like the irony of our own expertise to teach people this and work with you know, organizations and people all around the world helping with this and we still need to practice it every single day and screwed up most days to

Amy Steindler  
Yeah, I'd love to hear more about this also in a in a work context. So how do we approach that? As a leader as a team member, you forget

Chad Littlefield  
a previous client or customer one of our card decks is from the Netherlands. I want to say Netherlands I need to fact check this after after the fact but in Dutch I believe the word curiosity translates a little bit and this is actually multiple cultures relates somewhat similar similarly to nosiness. And so at work, the dynamic that most commonly commonly comes up or the objection to connection in a in a workplace is Willie Louis, this is work, we can't be curious about each other and each other's lives. And to that, I would say, like, too bad like that person is their life, they brought it into work with them. There is not a separation. I think we've been educated on that in the last two years, when there have been lots of kids showing up in the background and cats and ups, people delivering packages and do all of that, right, all of that context in life. So in a work context that said, like if you can imagine in your mind, a bell curve, the classic you know, you have your outliers on each corner. But most people right fit into a bucket, I think that the impact and value of connection at work lies on a bell curve. And I don't have like, this is the data to show this is anecdotal experience working with clients where there's a certain level of connection that's really optimal. But then there I've also worked with organizations that have gone like way far. And they you know, they refer to their work culture as family, which can be charged for some people, because some people don't have really great families, and they're like, I go to work to get away from my family, or whatever, right? Whatever that dynamic is. And so certain level of curiosity, and I think that's where intention comes in, is what's your intention in this curiosity is it just to like, mine, me for all of my resources, and leave me like an empty quarry? Or is it to uplift and build and be on my team and create communication shortcuts and get to know each other better, so that we can actually work better and have a little bit more fun and joy along the way, too.

Adina Tovell  
So I want to go into intention. And I want to deliver on the promise here that we're going to talk about the neuroscience, because this is fascinating to me. And I know that I can personally experience a shift when there's a clear intention. And I know that in working with others, that seems like there can almost be the same, like I don't get it or that's not you know, it's more like you got to get down to work, stop with all this intention building, right? But the science behind what's actually happening in the brain, when we approach a moment, and as you said, that moment could be a conversation, it could be a meeting, it could be anything, it could be me picking up my daughter from the airport, it could be whatever it is, what's happening in the brain, when we're pausing to set an intention.

Chad Littlefield  
Yeah, I think soon, we'll have there's little sections in the book with little gray call outs to unpack for each level of this pyramid, unpack some of the neuroscience. And soon we'll actually have these up on the website as well. But one of them is, when we set an intention, we're actually much more likely to follow through with that behavior. So this isn't so much what's happening directly in the brain, but it's what's what happens in our so i don't i don't know that any neuroscientist right? That's a really sexy word to throw around when you're talking about research or sharing data with a group. Well never forget at a cognitive psychology professor in grad school, open up classes first statement was just so you know, I'm about to teach an entire semester on the brain. And to be clear, there isn't a single neuroscientists or cognitive scientists who could tell you what a thought actually is. Like, we have some major gaps in understanding and how the brain works. And so most neurosciences like, we think this like kind of happens, and then maybe this is sort of the result. Like that's a neuroscientist would probably disagree with me and be like, No, no, I know more than that. But if you boil it down, and you ask why enough times, like our understanding stops, that said, when we set an intention, we know that people are much more likely to follow through with that action. So to the objection of like, Hey, we just got to get down to work. We don't have time for this connection thing, because most people in a work context to have feel like they have too much to do in too little time. And so the idea of spending five or 10 minutes, doing a little bit of connection before content beforehand, which I have a very particular definition for that does not include like little chitchat, small talk, which is normally what connection before content is is like, how was your weekend and just little like fluttery things that people are debatably curious about? So, in other words, spending 60 seconds at the beginning of a meeting to say what is our intention for this meeting is very likely to increase the chances that that intention actually comes to fruition comes to life in some way. So that's that's one major thing that just setting an intention actually changes people's behavior, which is just pretty cool to think about.

Amy Steindler  
Yeah. And almost seems like that intention is guiding where everyone's attention goes.

Chad Littlefield  
Yeah, I think the beyond being a really cool play on words. intention very drastically, shapes people's attention. Because if they're paying let's say, let's just give people the benefit of the doubt and say that they are paying attention for the first five minutes Have any conversation or gathering. If after about five minutes, they are questioning whether or not intentions are shared or they're ambiguous about what the purpose or intention is, it is really, really likely that their intention will go or their attention will go somewhere else will start paying their attention to somebody else. If, if that intention or that pathway is unclear, which I think, you know, we don't need to talk about that almost in the third person, that's probably true for us. If we're in a conversation, and we're like, I don't know that this is exactly what I expect, like there, there have been times not so much anymore. But when I first started, we and me were, you know, hop on a call with somebody or potential client or client and be getting five minutes. And I'd be like, Whoa, like, I need more context on this what what is happening right now, it just, it can be jarring to not have a shared intention or purpose, even if somebody like really wants to get down to work. Okay,

Adina Tovell  
I think actually, even with this podcast, like I had an intention of where I wanted to go, and then it's like, I got distracted, but because it was clear, and I said it, I could find my way back, right? Because this visual came to my mind, as you were talking about that it's almost like playing to pin the tail on the donkey with a blindfold or without a blindfold. You know, and if you're playing the game, and you've got the blindfold on, right, the tail could end up any old place, right. And we've all played that as a kid and seeing the incredibly funny things that happen as a result of that, very often not hitting the target, right, you take the blindfold off, and it's much easier to put the towel and you know, I mean, not that creative things can come from seeing what happens when you put a tail on the nose of the donkey but or summarize something like that. But you know, in general, in our environments, when we talk about efficiency, if we have no intention, and we're walked doing this all with blindfolds on, it ends up is so much less efficient process in the long run.

Chad Littlefield  
Yeah, I metaphors is perfect, right? It's like seeing where you're going versus running around with a blindfold on. And to maybe I'm in minerals, partnership and relationship, I'm the one that always wants to wills really, really amazing, focusing on who somebody is being rather than what they're doing. And the the AI just has some gifts to access many invisible things in a dynamic conversation, which I'd like to think I can do some of, but I'm also the person that leaves a conversation. I'm like, What do I do with my hands so that I love that idea and metaphor, and to take it even one step further into like, Okay, so how do I take off the blindfold, beyond just sharing intention, because that's a, that's a pretty broad call to action, actually. And so in in the book, we break down a few different intentions to them that I think might be useful right now, to put this into practice. One of them is an outcome focused intention. Right. So by the end of this meeting, I would love to have all of these details decided, so that nobody leaves with any extra work to do. Right? The so that is really important. Because the first part of what I said is almost an objective, or an agenda item, like we want to get this done, the outcome, adding the words, so that to the end of any sentence, and you can do it multiple times actually make a really long sentence, when you add so that it takes it one level, deeper or more expansive, and allows that intention to include the needs of others. Whereas if I'm, let's say, I'm boss, and I say, hey, let's get started, we need to get this done. That's great. I want to get it done. That's my need. But a really good intention should encompass the people who are going to help me out their needs as well. And so to say, let's get this done so that everybody can leave with nothing to do and maybe some extra time to spend with family. Right? It's a really empathetic way to say let's get down to work. And, and very sincere to so outcome, focus intention, being one on the other aspects. And I really like this one, for no matter what context you're in, but it's a commitment focused intention. So one that is useful for me even like I mentioned to you before we started recording that I haven't, I'm interviewing somebody for the role of director of connections for Wi Fi. And I have a very bad habit despite liking questions and helping we'll write a book about it. I have a very bad habit of talking too much in an interview and like sharing cuz I get excited. I'm like, Oh, I'm bringing this person to the world, blah, blah. You like slow my roll. And so let's just say that let's let's put this into practice at 3pm. Today, when I am interviewing Heather, my intention will be to listen More than I share, and to really listen in a way that's uplifting her, rather than listening to like, check boxes and see if she fits or not for this interview, there we go. So, commitment focus. As a leader, if you make a commitment focused intention to somebody, it allows your peeps to kind of keep you in check to say like, Hey, remember how you kind of spelled out this intention? I'm not sure that's happening right now.

Amy Steindler  
That's almost like there's a difference between what we want to do and how we want to be. Right? How do I want to be in this interaction with Heather? versus what do I want to get done?

Chad Littlefield  
Yeah, yep. Yep, I would say the, the two usually create a pretty good split, I would say there's a nuance you can, you could say an outcome focus, intention, you know, the, say you're having a two day conference, the intention of this conference is for all of us to leave, being and feeling uplifted. I don't know why that word keeps showing up for me, right now in this conversation, but so it's, you're gonna have an outcome actually be related to being as well, it doesn't necessarily need to be a to do list item.

Adina Tovell  
One of the things and then we're gonna have so much to cover, but again, we're not gonna make this a five hour conversation. But what I'm thinking about intentions, and we've talked about the fact that they do help to focus and we take off the blindfold, we actually say, I want to look, I want to really kind of set myself in the direction of I want all of us if we're there's a group of us to be, you know, agreeing upon and directed toward a play a way of being as well as possibly an outcome. And then in the book, you talk about how a single word can change an intention completely. And there's, I'm sure many examples, like there's an example you give in there about Hewlett Packard and the work they're doing. And you also talk about one time where there was this experience where we'll, instead of saying create conversations that matter, is create conversations that create matter. I've met that, and I want to just spend some time because I know that when I work with people, I can sometimes really bring their attention to a single word. Most of us are not super vigilant about the word choices we make. And so what difference can a single word make? In making connection or setting intentions? Yeah, you're,

Chad Littlefield  
I just learned something from your question, which is cool, and an insight that I have not had before this moment. So I'm excited to share that. The first thing that comes up I that mentor and friend, Brendan, who always used to say, I think his mentor said this, and I'm sure that somebody before that said this too. But this idea that a choice of words is often a choice of worlds. That is true. And also what you said is true in that we often don't think too, too too much about our words, we let them flow, especially us extroverts, or we don't take time enough time to process. The Aha, the insight that came from your question in both the examples from Hewlett Packard and from wields keynote, which just for context, the Hewlett Packard, the short story is that there was a big vision meeting happening for Hewlett Packard to kind of cast a vision of where are we going, what, what kind of company do we want to be? And essentially, they had written up on a whiteboard and this brainstorming session, we want to be the best computer company in the world. And there was a senior engineer on the team who was like, I'm not totally like, that doesn't make me want to get out of bed in the morning. Like, okay, cool. Microsoft makes computers to or so. So rewinding, senior engineer in this meeting, gets up and goes to the whiteboard, crosses out the word in, we're going to be the best computer company in the world, and writes the word for above it, we want to be the best computer company for the world. And as part of research for this book, actually contacted and got in touch with somebody who was in that meeting that happened. The ripple effect of that meeting, was that that phrase wouldn't be the best computer company for the world's right turned a more of like a lame business objective or vision into a really powerful intention. In one word shift. That ended up becoming a poster of a picture of the world. This is like back before Photoshop even picture of the world in the founders shed. And that was printed and shared with hundreds of 1000s of people around the world within HP, etc. One word Shift, ooh, really different sentence, that word shift, also add, I don't have data on this. But I guarantee you that that word shift, changed retention rates on teams. Because to work for the best computer company for the world versus the best one in the world are two very different experiences. One has tied to a higher level purpose and intention. One is like, we just want to make a little bit more cash. So So for me, yeah, that that is the power of one single word. The Aha, though, is in the example of will misspeaking, the subtitle of the book and saying conversations that create matter, rather than conversations, creating conversations that matter is those are both the HP thing and that were both things right, there were statements. One was like a vision statement. One was a subtitle of a book, it wasn't just a random sentence that somebody was randomly saying in a random conversation. And so I wonder if it sometimes it takes if we want to get really intentional about our words, if it actually takes writing it out. And giving it a name, whether it's a vision statement, or at the beginning of a meeting, an intent statement, or a subtitle or a title, or something like that, like name that name those words, that you're going to be sharing, because I think when we do, we elevate their purpose, like this sentence is more or this phrase is more important than all the other ones that will happen today, that will go out of out of our mouth or into our ears. So that's kind of fun to think about. If you if you have some words that you want to make more impactful, give it a name, make it a thing, and maybe put it on a poster, I don't know.

Adina Tovell  
It's interesting, because we do spend, put a lot more intention and take more care when we're doing things like creating a vision statement, or the subtitle and a book or things like that. Yet, it's interesting how many times you might hear from somebody, you know, that thing you said to me 10 years ago that you didn't even realize had an impact, left an impression that has stayed with a person, or a way a glance that we made at somebody has stuck with them and meant something either harmful or wonderful. And I recently started a blog post that just causes us to perhaps get curious is, what if we had to actually pay a tax or a surcharge on every word we wrote? Or spoke? Would we do what we sometimes do? Would we let everything just flow and as mindless away as we sometimes can we post all over the internet every which thing that came to our mind, and bringing that consciousness to how impactful in almost any context every word that we might speak could be

Chad Littlefield  
I love that and to give that a name of a friend solem who helps in the CO creation of we connect cards and he talked about are you loves talking about the economy of words? And that concepts? Exactly right. Like it's a pretty brain shifting idea to say that you're charged 1/100 of a cent for every word that you say today

Amy Steindler  
I you know what's interesting about that, you know, the neuroscience behind that which is they're they're they're two different brain processes happening one when you're creating and when when you're editing. And so, you know, I think we have both found here, you know, there has to be an opportunity for us to just articulate wildly, and then a different process for ha let's refine that. And that's an essence it seems to me what that engineer at HP Did you know he'd someone articulated something. And he began that editing process that analysis of, you know, what really works about this and what doesn't? Hmm, whoo,

Chad Littlefield  
so many insights show now. So, so imagine, imagine this aiming. Imagine starting meeting. Let's say there's 10 people there and you take 60 seconds and ask everybody to type their intention for that meeting into the chat. That's the divergent thinking part of the creative process, right? Like, be free with your words, don't feel limited in any way. Feel free to word vomit on your keyboard. Then pause, read through everybody's intentions. And knowing everybody else's intentions, can you copy and paste your own ads so that and then an additional statement that you feel like encompasses everybody else's intention, right to expand that intention out a little bit, something like that. That's fun. That's cool. That's also important to realize, because if we're, if we were thinking, if I was thinking about being charged for all of my words, I'd have the same level of hyper consciousness that I do when I shut off the lights, or I leave a light on, I'm like, Ah, that was like $2.87 leaving that attic laid on all week, or whatever it was. And so you don't you want people to have a certain level of freedom in speaking and not to feel like and I think that this is an interesting conversation to talk about, too is the in the culture of political correctness that we live in? What's the like, the balance or the continuum of how many egg shells do we walk on? versus how, Okay, are we stepping on an egg shell and saying, oops, can you tell me more about why that's an egg shell? And, and learning and I don't, I don't have a real strong opinion one way or the other. But I know now that there kind of is a tax on our words, organizationally, especially right. And the tax is you might end up in HR, if you say the wrong thing. Or if you're in an interview, you might not get a job, right? There are actually lots of contexts where your words are taxed, just in sometimes non monetary ways.

Adina Tovell  
I know can we stick someone to Facebook or Twitter or something like that, I think we could raise a lot of money for something good in the world if we did that. Alright. So the first line, we've been talking about the first part of the pyramid, and we're not going to get all the way up to the top. Because otherwise, again, this would be a five hour conversation. But in terms of intention, moving up to rapport, and that making that connection, I often think of the work that we do a courage to be curious, focuses on reflection, and you guys work on connection, you know, like bringing that reflection to really self awareness and awareness of self in relationship to others, and then you guys pick up that work? And how do we then bring forth connection? So, um, but I want to think about the role of curiosity and making connection, you've used this word a lot. And we're all let's say, we're all born with it, right? We all have the sense we're born with it. And when we're kids, we're running around with certain kinds of curiosity. It's what we naturally come out of the womb with? And what happens to that curiosity? Or what makes it so important to the connection process? And then what happens to it over time? Where does it go?

Chad Littlefield  
Yeah, it's I know that this might not be a common narrative for everyone. But I in my own world that feels like a common narrative that it's like, we're really, really curious, really wonderfully curious little beings. We're asking, you know, from the all the research we did, asking roughly 300 to 400 questions per day when we're ages two to five. And then by the time we're adults, we ask on average, six to 12 questions per day. And, you know, from being around adults and being an adult, probably half of those questions are like when you're getting home, and what are we going to eat tonight? And right, like logistical questions, not necessarily curiosity, questions rooted in curiosity. So what happens to it the common narrative that I feel like is that we blame school? And we say, we're really curious, really curious. And then we go to school, and people teach you the right answer to a task, and you're like searching for the right answer. And I think that that is, you know, one of my teachers used to say that the best way to kill a question is with an answer. And I think that that is a perfect way to kill that question. It's just a blame school, or to blame education or blame Anything else? And I think that with most things in life is there is not a super like, this is why, or this is where our curiosity goes. It's like, it's actually in Montana, our curiosity went to Montana, right? It's like, there isn't that simple of an answer. So maybe school is part of it, depending on the teachers that you had. I think that one dynamic going back to an earlier part of the conversation is as our knowledge accumulates, we kill more and more questions. So let's say there's a billion potential questions we could ask within our realm of knowledge and our little lives on Earth. So there's a billion potential questions. And as we get older, we keep crossing them out as we find answers to them. And so when auto my son asked me, Why is the red light red? And I say it's so that cars stop and don't crash into each other? Cross or more likely, why? gets added on and we crossed out 17 more questions that our follow ups to that. But if you think about it, like, I don't think we're ever going to get near, near close to crossing off a billion, but our brains can actually comprehend a billion. So when we cross off about 10,000 questions, let's say, as we grow up and understand the world, the more that feels like there's less questions to be asked, because we've asked so many of them we understand so much around the world. And so I wonder if our curiosity is actually Just sitting in the basement with the other 999,999,000, etc, questions that we haven't asked yet. So I truly I don't know the answer. But I think that those are two variables that play into the Curiosity deficit or our curiosity going away because I do agree that largely it's gone away.

Amy Steindler  
You know, this makes me wonder, and we're not going to answer this today. But you know, it makes me wonder about the nature of understanding, you know, what makes us decide, okay, we know, you know, what is the nature of that? So we'll leave that for the neuroscientists, for the philosophers. But, you know, it makes me curious what, at what point do we say, okay, check. You know, is there something going on in our brains that makes us feel like, I have full understanding of this and need go no further? I don't know, this is

Chad Littlefield  
me this is I think this is one of the most profoundly interesting things that is 99% of our awareness. Never even travels down this path, but it is, with any scientific discovery. If you ask why. Just a couple times, a couple layers down. The smartest physicists, physicists, aerospace scientists, neuroscientists, etc. Have no answers. Like literally just a couple layers deep. So okay, so oxytocin floods our brain, we feel more love, we know that we hug somebody for 14 seconds oxytocin gets released. But why does oxytocin get released? Okay, a hug. Why does like skin touching skin release oxytocin that doesn't like oxytocin is in our brain. But skins are great. So just a couple and people smarter than me can go a couple layers down, but there's pretty quickly you hit a ceiling where someone if they're really honest, is gonna say,

Amy Steindler  
huh. I mean, it's all about the species surviving and continuing. You know, it's it's all about self preservation, I think ultimately.

Chad Littlefield  
Yeah, yeah. And yeah, right? Do we really need to know like, the fact that all my skins gets in cells in my hand are stuck together, and they're not floating off into space? Do I really need to walk around the world? knowing why that is? Or do I just need to pick up my coffee, so I can drink it in the morning? And it's like, yeah, maybe as you move up Maslow's hierarchy, like, you might think about that. But you don't really need to know it in order to operate in life. And so yeah, that's probably why it's probably useful to our survival to not think about that 99% of the time. Yeah,

Adina Tovell  
there was a phrase that you just use at the very end of that exchange, where you said, operate in life. And that combined with something that your previous comment or discussion kind of led me down this path of what is the purpose of our curiosity? And when might we actually start to interpret that the purpose of our curiosity is to gather enough information to be able to operate in life as though that is the end goal of it. In which case, then I only need to get curious enough to accumulate what I believe I need to operate in a particular situation. And I was thinking about it, because when you talked about your son asking you about why the light is red? And you answered, as I absolutely probably answered the same question to my daughters, which was, you know, to, because people can stop and we can travel safely. And then I thought to myself, if I had been trained differently than if I thought about this, and if the goal was not to give information to help us operate in life, but the goal was actually to keep cultivating curiosity, how different what else might How else might I have responded? And I thought to myself, I wonder what might have happened in my own kids development? If I had responded in that moment. What do you notice happening each time the light turns red? You know, and if I had continued to set my kids on a path of engaging their own investigation, rather than filling the blank of an answer, which I didn't do, by the way, and I noticed the impact on my own kids because I didn't do that then. And I also noticed the impacts in my own life there's a plate there's certain places like to your point, okay, we might be an expert in this but it doesn't mean we've got it all figured out. And we do it all the time. You know, there are places where I recognize that my curiosity is my default to go to and then I realize there are places where the answers and the filling in the information needing to know is where I go to and you know, as you were talking, I think that just sort of got me a little curious. Is is are curious. Curiosity for the function of being able to operate, or, you know, is that curiosity? Same as in a curious mind, tell me the author of a curious mind who I'm blanking on right now. ingresar Ryan grazer, right? You know, is it simply for its own purpose? And as you know, I think it's attributed right to Albert Einstein. Curiosity is its own reason for existing, right? So it's just what prompted my thinking.

Chad Littlefield  
So here's a very in in this very moment, when you ask that question, Why, what's the purpose of curiosity, I noticed I'm looking at myself on our beat down myself on camera, and I just had this huge grin on my face in this conversation. And we're a little bit taut. After the top of the hour and us I came in with the intention of like, I have a little bit like six dumpster fires going on in my life outside of this and work and there's a basement flooding. And so I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get off like, this is gonna be a shortage podcast, and I'm gonna get off. And I found myself just sitting here smiling. And when and then you ask that question, what's the purpose of curiosity? And my whole being and my gut just went to create joy. Like it when you're really curious right now. My wife's looking for an hour and a half ago, I was on the phone with her. And she's like, you sound really stressed, you should just like, hang up with me and come back date. Which I did before we hopped on here. And but just the AHA here like I'm relearning. Like, I know this. I knew this. But I'm relearning that really genuine curiosity, which, by the way, I tribute, Amy and Edina to your absolute brilliance in curiosity, you should have wrote written ask powerful questions. You're just really, really, you know, phenomenal. asters and listeners. And so. And the result of that, for me right now is joy. So this is a major gift. Thank you.

Adina Tovell  
I think that is a beautiful transition to how we typically wrap these up, like let's leave each other with doses of joy. Because I think as we share, before we got on, one of the things we'd like to leave with is, let's just ask questions that are genuinely curious about to each other. And I'm going to imagine that we ask those questions today that what we're doing is we're offering we're making up offerings of July to each other and asking those questions. And I will say, Amy is actually quite spectacular at this activity and ask questions that every single time make me burst into that smile. And so Amy, I'm going to let you begin the activity today, because you are so spectacular.

Amy Steindler  
You're so kind. So Chad, I'm curious. You mentioned the word uplift a few times today. And you even notice that you use that word a few times. And so what is it about uplift that made it worth mentioning today? Huh?

Chad Littlefield  
I probably need to meditate after this conversation in order to answer that, but I think my wife's coming up a lot in conversation today, too. But naturally, we're married and we talk about work in each other's days, often enough. And sometimes that feels like I'm almost like sharing about my day because that's what we like, that's what you do over dinner. But the other night sometimes, right. But the other night, she was listening in a way that the conversation didn't sound that different, but it felt so different. And I think there was a certain level of I felt very uplifted. And I think the reason may have been a Kate's intention, right was really really there. But there was also this, it was like a third type of intention that we didn't talk about is a future focus intention. And I could there I could feel there was this like desire to create a really brilliant future in this conversation in the present moment. And so I think uplifting I don't know if it's like just a vertical like up lift. I think it's also like a lift forward towards something else. Like you're actually helping someone go somewhere, wherever that is they want to get whether that's to a more joyful place, or just to the next step in their career, or to get unstuck from where they are, whatever that is just that forward motion, partially sparked by the future focus intention of listening. You know, listening in a way that changes what people say and what people actually do.

Amy Steindler  
It almost sounds like it's one of your core values, right? to uplift and feel that. what that feels like when you're doing that. Tell me where I'm wrong.

Chad Littlefield  
No, no, no, no, my like, confused. Look around. My face was actually saying before this morning, as I'm thinking about hiring this person, I'm thinking about, you know, we have values, they're written down in a variety of places. But if I were to just really quickly say, here's our values, what would those be? And I think you might be right, that my intention is absolutely to uplift the leaders and educators that I get to work with. Awesome. Do I get to go next year? How does this work?

Adina Tovell  
Yes, go ahead. You get to go next, ask somebody question.

Chad Littlefield  
So all right, favorite questions that's not on, we connect cards. And I'm not I'm actually genuinely curious about this, because I don't know a ton about your world outside of this podcast. And so I know some, I don't know a ton. And so I'm wondering, what has been in the let's Brant to recent time, so in the last week or two, you'd scale out into August, if you want to think about the month, what has been a highlight a low light and insight for you in the last month.

Adina Tovell  
Okay, well start with low light, we'll get that out of the way. Um, so the low light has been, I think I've shared with both of you that my mom has been pretty sick. And actually according to research, that what she has, which is post herpetic neuralgia, a complication, after shingles is categorized as literally the number two most painful thing that a body can experience. And it's only behind number one, which is a similar ailment, but from a different disease. Wow. And so I have been, you know, watching her for the last week, go into episodes of just excruciating torture pain, and you're just able to sit with somebody you love, and just hold them while they experience it. So that has been really, really painful. And I would say that's probably the low, I would say, you know, the powerful thing that is related to that is, I have a dear friend, a best friend who literally became like almost an adopted sister, but how often that you have a friend who will actually come in because I don't typically live close to my mom, as you know, Chad, I moved out to the other side of Pennsylvania. And so I live six hours away from where my mother is right now, except now I live with her. But before I got here to have a friend who's willing to step in, and say, I will be you. And I will go and I will be there and hold your mother and I will take her to the emergency room. And I will do all of these things, you know, in your place.

Chad Littlefield  
A wild gift

Adina Tovell  
that is a wild wild gift. So you know, to talk about a highlight, you know, of those two things. And I remember one of the teachers that I always teachings I value most from somebody was to say how humans can hold two totally competing emotions at the same time. And so you can have such deep sadness and such deep gratitude and, you know, feeling that you've received such a gift at the same time in the same moment. So that's been wonderful. And, you know, I think that insight, of what I've been thinking a lot about, I guess we'll say, is the human experience, and what is it that makes something a life? And when you know, who gets to determine what, you know, what makes life meaningful? And what makes it you know, what makes us able to be present to it. So I don't have to know that I have an insight, but it's the things I've been sitting with this week. So

Chad Littlefield  
I'm like sitting with them is insightful in and of itself, actually. It I think you start your first question of our conversation was, what's a conversation that matters? How is that broken down? And I can see that that's actually sometimes insight, or you're just sitting with it. But maybe partially because you've been sitting with that, it became the first question that started off our conversation in a really lovely way. So it's fun to think about insights and just pondering Actually, this is where we'll talk about conversations that create matter, right? You just actually changed the course of our history. I don't know about all of history, but he's changed the course of our history by sitting with that, so thanks.

Adina Tovell  
Thank you. And, Amy, let me ask you a quick question. And I just because I have to I am so curious. You know, you always have these cool backgrounds on when we're doing these shows, but they always have flowers. So tell us something about your relationship to flowers because every background you have has flowers in it.

Amy Steindler  
Yeah, I mean, I think it's my relationship to beauty and grow. You know, things that are just absolutely astonishing. Like this exists like that there's there's a, there's an organism on this earth that can create these purple leaves and also have a fragrance This happens to be the Wisteria vines growing in my outdoor shower. So this is what I see when I'm taking a shower. And so yeah, it's about bringing beauty which really, you know, sounds kind of, I don't know trite, but for me it I'm realizing how important that is to me, you know, is thinking when you were talking about highlights, you know, the highlights of my life are always looking out my window into my garden, and seeing something growing there or seeing a hummingbird outside my window, just those simple moments of beauty that bring me as much joy as Chad gets out of his curiosity.

Adina Tovell  
So I think almost more than anything this conversation I you know, I felt it a lot, which is just wow, the power of questions. I mean, I ask questions all day long. I know, Chad, you do too. And Amy. And sometimes you have moments where you just like are reminded, this is why I love this work, right? This is why this work is so powerful. And today's conversation is one of those. And so, you know, Chad, you guys have a whole collection of resources to help engage people help them learn how to ask conversations that matter how to create conversations that matter how to ask questions that connect, so share some of those resources so people know where they can find out more. Yeah, sure.

Chad Littlefield  
Before a shout out, I'll share a resource that I didn't create. I can't remember the guys name. But based on what you just said about flowers and plants and that small joy Amy, there's a new documentary called fantastic fungi. And I can't lose somebody who does amazing time lapse photography of mushrooms and plants. And I just saw like a behind the scenes of how he filmed that was just so remarkable to bend perspective of time and see that beauty all condensed is something that takes Yeah, you know, time lapses. Okay? So connection toolkit is this really lovely box that has a ton of awesome stuff packed into it. So including the book, cards, etc. And I think information should be free, and experiences and actual like things you can touch is how I feed my family and pay a mortgage. And so if you go to wi n.me slash ideas, so wi n.me slash ideas, you can get a free digital version of that connection toolkit or a whole bunch of free resources. And then on that same website, you can check out the actual physical connection to get books, etc. If you Google Chad little fields, you'll find a Chad Littlefield who was murdered a few years ago, it's not me, I'm still here. So add, we add me to the end of that Google search. And you'll find a whole bunch of other stuff too. You can do the same on YouTube. I have, you know, a couple 100 videos, all of the videos, titles, most of the video titles are actually a question and the video is my best response to that question. So an actual question that a leader and educator asked me in some way, shape or form? Yeah, there you go. We end up me

Adina Tovell  
and me. And so we hope as we do every single week on this tech podcast that we inspire your own curiosity as a listener that we inspire you to, can explore what it means to show up to life to relationships to leadership, from a stance of curiosity, and to really expand your repertoire and asking questions. So you've got great resources, courage to be curious. This is where we produce question cards to Let's all go out and create more curiosity together. And this was such an amazing finale to the month on the power questions. There's September. So thank you, Chad. And thank you, Amy, for making this such an incredible experience. Thank you. And we will be back in October where we are talking about facades and the masks that we wear in the world and how we take them off and what happens when we do so keep listening with us. We are back in October and will I just hope we keep connecting keep Connect k grade and connections and conversations that matter what both of you

Amy Steindler  
I would love the chat. It was a great experience to be in your orbit today.

Chad Littlefield  
Yeah, this is a joy Amy Vina thanks for sparking the conversation and asking the questions that made it happen.

Adina Tovell  
Awesome, and we will be back with you next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai